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D.I.SHULGIN
YEARS OF UNCERTAINTY А ALFRED SCHNITKE

Moscow
1993

(Attention! The text is given in computer translation!)

The book « Years of uncertainty Alfred Schnitke » is written to D.I.Shulgin – by one of outstanding domestic musicologists, the author of some books, the manuals which have won wide recognition in our country and abroad, including such, as « Theoretical bases of modern harmony », « The Manual under the acoustical harmonious analysis », « Recognition of Edison Denisov», « Creativity - life of Victor Ekimovsky » (in commonwealth with musicologist T.V. Shevchenko), « Modern features of a composition of Victor Ekimovsky ». The maintenance of this book decided in a genre of " monographic conversations ", is devoted to creativity of ingenious Russian composer Alfred Schnitke, his public life, numerous and not ordinary sights of this outstanding musician - philosopher at every possible aspects of art of XX century and arts of last centuries, at performing activity of many domestic and foreign executors, creativity and outlook of composers much modern and previous to him, artists, poets and writers. In the book various estimations, analyses of the composer of own compositions are submitted, it is told about a history of their creation, about the first both subsequent executions and executors. The book is written on the basis of D.I. Shulgin`s exclusive conversations with Alfred Schnitke.
The text of the edition of the book, idea and the materials put in its basis, were formed during the period with 1976 for 1989, and the book for the first time has been published in 1993.





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О82 (02) - 04

ISBN 5 - 85285


© Shulgin Dmitry Iosifovich
Conversations with the composer, 1976-1977.


" when you write the product, you build the whole world...

There is no musical material which would not deserve the embodiment... In itself a life, everything, that surrounds us so floridly... That we shall be more fair, if we shall try to reflect all this...

Let the student himself decides that it(he) understands, and that is not present ".
Alfred Schnitke


Conversations with the composer – his(its) ideas about, the creativity, the predecessors and contemporaries; reflections about the future of art, about creative success and misses, that excites it(him), forces to suffer and gives pleasure, prevents to live, work, that does(makes) his(its) creativity such what it is represented to it(him) and us and about much by the friend. As frequently there are no all of us these ideas, judgements and the estimations of the composer given by him(it) to to what it(he) is connected to what his(its) vital need is connected to compose, create the own sound world. Pass years, and there are first brief reviews, clauses(articles), sketches and, at last, monographies in which there is much and in own way, important that tells to us about music of the composer, his(its) life. Then these stories are supplemented with others, and sometimes by them and are crossed out, and with not smaller proofs and, certainly, objectivity. And each time to us suggest to hear in products of the composer that is heard to authors of all these works, to see in his(its) creative searches those directions which all see to the same authors and, eventually, to imagine the person of the composer such by what she(it) is represented to them. Correctly it whether or not? It seems to me, that is correct. But only very much it would be desirable, that in all these discussions the voice of the composer was audible also: his(its) opinion, if not about everything it is necessary that it(he) counts the most important in the life, the creativity. Certainly, and it(he) can see itself(himself) "incorrectly biassedly, but, maybe, from all these "wrong things" and biassed things we shall find for ourselves that, which will make really real for us contact to music world of the composer, with his(its) alive "Forte".
We frequently do not hear and we do not see much that to us suggest to hear and see. And, probably, it occurs because our abilities here appear insufficient in comparison with abilities of authors of such offers, but that we simply hear is possible also and we see in compositions of the composer just that it(he) wanted to present us and that is completely not audible and it is not visible to anothers. All this, probably, so, and can be and absolutely speaks in another way: are powerless immeasurably more difficultly and more deeply as that music that appears from under a feather of the composer just when any words appear, and it is just necessary special extremely multivariate "infinite" the world of sounds, the world of "words", ideas, the images weaved from them and still(even) of something, that, probably, and is "I" and "We" of the composer, there is Time living in it(him) and going to us from the Past in the Future through him(it) and...
Also pass years – estimations and people (again vary?) start to understand, that in each Time music finds the students and speaks only with them. But, all the same, the desire to place, take away on shelfs of own estimations remains (and differently how to understand her(it) if not to compare, not compare, not find a place to it(her) among familiar). Probably, so will be always, and even should be always, however all the same it would be desirable, very much it would be desirable, to talk, have a talk with the same and now great: Bash, Mozart, Beethoven and, certainly, many others, but it is impossible. With one in due time anybody for some reason has not wanted to have a talk, and with another – Beethoven – and that it is worse: conversations conducted, but something, it is visible, has not kept within in consciousness of his(its) interlocutor, has not got on with his(its) own representations about the person of the Composer, and we still had from Beethoven only that in it(him) it would be desirable to see to his(its) "benevolent" admirer and "friend".
Certainly, and in statements of the composer, – as though they sincere were not, – always there will be only one party(side) of the Truth, a certain share of the general truth; and in it(her) will be desirable, given out for valid; and in it(her) there will be an insult for something on world around (can be and not always fair); and in it(her) there will be a Past not always realized in all details, and the Future which, maybe, and will not receive the life in his(its) compositions, but nevertheless is it(He), felt by him(it), thought up by him(it), and such it(he), certainly, should be near to the music.
" conversations with the composer " – a genre not new, but far from being becoming still traditional in musicology (not each time, probably, to the composer would be desirable "to expose" the ideas and feelings "to dig" in the problems to open the technological secrets and, especially to speak that seems to it(him) the mistake, dependence, lack and another "not"). In one of conversations of 1976 (and all of them concern to this time) Alfred Shnitke even has told, that such introspection seems to it(him) definitely severe and in something even harmful to the composer, for his(its) today''s work though further it can give and any positive effect.
As these "Conversations" have affected creativity itself Alfred Shnitke – to decide only to the composer and his(its) students. Much seems to me, that of what it(he) has shared in these conversations, has found then reflection and development in all his(its) compositions of different years, their maintenance(contents), technics(technical equipment). Anyway, any basic divergences between his(its) words from 1976 and affairs of the next years of a creative life has not arisen.
The composer tells about the friends, colleagues, teachers, executors and before us always surprisingly alive persons are persons in which we see much that the composer appreciates in people, in professional musicians, in the Life that is are stories, and about it(him). The composer tells about favourite compositions and their authors, and, besides, we learn(find out), that it is represented to it(him) by the most important in the world of Music, in art of the composition. The composer speaks about the products, here again all as – all that pleasure and a pain, searches and doubts, the brightest finds and severe losses outside of which the shape of it(him) would remain for us only one of those academic, maybe, even well drawn, but not alive figures of the creator, going measured step towards with the recognition.
The recognition, and tremendous, to The brightest, fortunately, has come, and it(he) one of very much - very much few composers which have met this happiness on rise of the creative life, yes a way to it(him)... About it(him) here too it is told, but it is a little, unfortunately, a little. Other questions, other interlocutors are necessary, it is necessary both main thing – time and need(requirement) of the composer to tell about all it and, certainly, the friend, but also this small – all this-таки about it(him), going from him(it), and it(he) from it for us becomes closer, понятнее, and it becomes much clearer, why his(its) compositions – such Music, its(her) Mind(Wit), Soul and the Body.
Probably there is no end to that it is possible to tell about this big, bright and surprisingly modern composer for different times. In these "Conversations" – about much, but not about all. Distortions – – are not present " literary translations ". There are insignificant denominations: the composer, answering, always reflected, and consequently separate words (seldom phrases) repeated or replaced with him(it) with more successful; some ideas broke in the statement: he(it) was not continuation; or they, besides, seem to the composer unpersuasive, not precisely expressing essence of the possible(probable) answer – all in the given text of "Conversations" is not present it. At the same time, when recurrences of words, pretexts and even phrases nevertheless remain in answers of the composer it – recurrences necessary, keeping in itself that alive, that is connected with " colloquial shape " the composer; With that manner of his(its) speech in which are heard his(its) sincerity, aspiration to convince in something of the interlocutor, and sometimes both humour, and easy irony, and in general much that will give each of readers of "Conversations" to feel near to this extremely benevolent, sincere and clever person, excessively self-critical both strict to itself and the creativity and, on the contrary, very kind to mistakes of other people and able to be pleased to their successes.
In "Conversations" many questions are set to the composer. Among them there are also that in due time has been put before Igor Stravinsky, Xindemit and Shenberg. Is here and questions which Sergey Prokofjev answers in "Curriculum vitae" or Dmitry Dmitrievich Shostakovich allowed answers. Here again special interest for asking the opportunity to compare represented the decisions of those or other problems offered(suggested), on the one hand, by composers, already received the world(global) recognition, and with another – the composer still(even) facing in 1976 only on a threshold of this recognition.
In "Conversations" there is also an information which is partly already known from other publications about Alfred Shnetke, but character of its(her) submission here, a course of idea in memoirs and the judgements of the composer going to us from 1976, one of last years uncertainty, non-recognition of his(its) creativity, does(makes) this information interesting not only as on itself, but also in the retrospective attitude(relation). All that has received in due course new shades in estimations of the composer, now can be added with her(it), will help to open with it(her) other sides, implied senses, and all this together will allow to track evolution of outlook, art and technological predilections Alfred Shnetke, will allow to see in this evolution the most important – a surprising harmonicity of the person of composer Alfreda Garrievicha Shnitke: Harmonicity of his(its) ideas and creative search, harmonicity which appeared extremely durable, despite of the hardest tests which were dropped out on his(its) share, for his(its) creativity, for destiny of his(its) products, a harmonicity which, to our big pleasure, both now again and again comes to life in Music of it(him) not dying inspiration.
Dmitry Shulgin 1976-1990.


Part the first

– Альфред Гарриевич, you were born on November, 24, 1934?
– Well, at last, this easy and long-awaited question. Yes. And this significant event has taken place in the city of Engels of the Saratov area. To tell the truth, at that time she(it) referred to АССР Germans of the Volga region.
– And when at you interest to music for the first time has woken up?
– To study in music I began late, from twelve years, but there was an opportunity to make it and earlier. I remember, that in 1941 I was on a visit at the grandfather and the grandmother, and me have led in ЦМШ to hand over entrance examination. I have not passed it(him). Me whether have not accepted, whether have taken in a preparatory class, but war began, I have come back home, and any music was not. In 45 – to 46 year to all have returned the receivers confiscated for the period of war, and I began to listen to music, and preferred operas. And if to recollect first my attempts not that what to compose, and, more likely, to dream (notes I then did not know) it there were any uncertain orchestral representations which I now расшифровываю as a tremolo and high wooden духовые, arising under influence heard "Шехеразады" or " the Spanish capriccio ", and in general, something in this sort. And besides, (any then at me musical instruments were not) I remember have got to me any lip accordion which I could not come off in any way, endlessly improvising and feeling like in Paradise.
– Who was your first teacher of music?
– In eleven years I from Engels have got to Vienna, and there took private(individual) lessons during one and a half years from pianist Charlotte Ruber who was engaged not so much in my hands, how many played with me at sight. Certainly, it were at the best sonatinas Диабелли, but all even it she(it) aspired to mine, more likely, общемузыкальному to development, than pianistic.
– You have written something to these years?
– In Vienna to the father as the premium have given out an accordion and *61482;. (it(He) worked then as the translator in the newspaper « and *214; sterreichische Zeitung » which was issue



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